A Critique of Norman Finkelstein on BDS

So Norman Finkelstein gave an interview in London on the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions Campaign (BDS). I noticed that Finkelstein’s views on the subject have been attracting a lot of attention and criticism. I was asked about such views during my UK university tour last month and in each case I stated that I would not publicly criticize Finkelstein although I disagree with some of the views he holds. But his recent remarks, I felt, went too far. Watching him, I could not help but think of the following points:

1) Finkelstein is obsessed with persuading the “public,” and he really and clearly means the US public, as if the struggle for Palestine is going to be won, or lost, in the US and not in the Middle East. He makes no reference to the rest of the world where public attitudes to Israel are very hostile.

2) Finkelstein asks how people can be convinced of "our position." To that I say: the Palestinians are the primary people to convince and they don’t need to be convinced. Outside of the NGOs in Ramallah that he scoffs at, the Palestinian people (refugees and non-refugees) support the BDS movement. It seems to me that they – and not liberal or non-liberal American in New York City – are the ones who should decide.

3) Finkelstein keeps talking about the “law” and how international law supports the state of Israel. But Finkelstein talks about law as if it is fixed. Law changes and adapts quickly to changing conditions on the ground. At one point, international law supported colonialism and the League of Nations endorsed (in its preamble) the Balfour Declaration and the “trusteeship” over nations – all that in the name of self-determination. Finkelstein even invokes the International Court of Justice in the Hague. But if oppressed people in the world resorted to International law in their struggle for independence and freedom, more than half of the globe would still be under colonial rule. I am glad that Finkelstein was not around to advise the people of Africa on how to achieve their freedom through international law. Plus, there are elements of international law which are in favor of what Finkelstein fears: the UN Partition Plan (as unjust as it was) does not give Israel more than 56% of historic Palestine and it does provide for the establishment of a Palestinian state over much more than the West Bank and Gaza. Is that not international law too Finkelstein? Furthermore, the UN General Assembly resolution 194 is also a part of international law that guides Finkelstein’s views on finding a solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict. And the UN Partition Plan does not permit Israel to discriminate, confiscate lands, expel peoples, and commit war crimes. These essential ingredients of the state of Israel are not part of international law.

4) Finkelstein rightly asks whether the real aim of BDS is to bring down the state of Israel. Here, I agree with him that it is. That should be stated as an unambiguous goal. There should not be any equivocation on the subject. Justice and freedom for the Palestinians are incompatible with the existence of the state of Israel.

5) Finkelstein mocks the move to bring up the plight of Arabs within the existing state of Israel. He adds (almost sarcastically) that there are other minorities oppressed around the world. What does that have to do with the subject? Imagine if someone were to say back in the 1950s that the plight of African-Americans should not be a cause for many because there are other minorities oppressed around the world. Again, we are all grateful that Finkelstein was not around to advise the civil rights movement. He brings up the (usual Zionist) point about hypocrisy given the mistreatment of minorities in Arab countries. There is no hypocrisy, Finkelstein. BDS is a movement of progressives around the world who have not oppressed minorities: Finkelstein talks as if the BDS movement is led by Saudi Arabia or Syria or Bahrain. One can call for justice for Arabs in “existing” Israel and also can call for justice for minorities in all Arab countries. The struggle should be universal in fact.

6) It was rather amusing that Finkelstein would invoke the authority of Yasser Arafat to bolster his support for the two-state solution. This is like somebody arguing against the dismantlement of apartheid on the basis of a speech by Chief Buthelezi. We know that whatever Arafat read was dictated to him either by a US official or by an Israeli official.

7) Finkelstein expressed his regret that he struggled within a cult and expresses his belief that working to pass laws in the US Congress would have been better. Again, Finkelstein betrays an American-centric approach to the issue. US Congress would never be in a position to liberate Palestine.

8) Finkelstein clearly expresses his objection to the return of the Palestinian refugees and worries about a change in the demographic reality in historic Palestine. Just as the demographics of Palestine have been changed repeatedly and violently by Israel, they can be changed again – and that would be just.

9) Norman makes fun of NGOs in Ramallah (and many of them deserve to be mocked). But when he expresses disdain for failure to mount demonstrations against the occupation, Finkelstein betrays his own record which has documented Israeli brutality. The Palestinian people now face a double system of oppression: one Israeli and another Israeli-by-proxy through the Palestinian Authority.

Finkelstein has suffered from Israeli and Zionist intimidation and bullying. He has paid a high price for his opposition to Israeli wars and propaganda. But that does not give him a license to mock a struggle that is supported by the overwhelming majority of the Palestinian people.

Comments

As'ad, I read your article and watched the video (thanks for the link!), and I have to say Professor Finkelstein has some very good points. Being a sympathizer with the Palestinians I honestly do not think Israel should not exist. On the contrary, I think that they should all aim for a Jewish-Palestinian cooperation, and make life better for themselves. I hardly see the point in changing the demographics in this area. If the conflict is ever to be resolved, it should be done in a way that both sides can live with. Professor Finkelstein is very realistic when he speaks about the 'public'. Palestinians cannot make it on their own. They have been trying that for over a century. We must admit it: only international involvement and world public opinion can change things on the ground. BDS will mean nothing without the support of Western public opinion, and suggesting one can ignore that is simply irresponsible.

Let me remind all that the Arabs rejected the UN Partition Plan and chose the war, Invaded Palestine to annihilate the new born Jewish state. Since then the Arabs rejected any peace offer. Should Israel say "Sorry we won"?

As far as I see the now day situation there is no any ability to make peace. The Arab side doesn't accept the right of the Jewish state to live in "Islamic Dahr el-Islam". For that case I suggest that real historical solution will be 2 states, one the TransJordan state of Palestinian Arabs and the second is the Palestinian Jews West Bank of Palestine, from the River to the Sea. Arabs that will live in the Israeli side of the River will be residents in Israel and citizens of the Palestinian side of the River - Palestine; and Jews that will live in the Palestinian side of the River will be residents in Palestine and citizens of the Israeli side of River - Israel.

"Palstinans" don't exist!

You all can whine all you want, Israel is here to stay. Analogies are cute, but if you think you can like a Jewish state to apartheid, dream on. It's that mentality which has caused Arab nations to lag the civilized world in development for 1,300 years.

Until 1967, the Arabs in the West Bank/Gaza never called themselves 'Palestinians.' They had 20+ years to create a state before 1967 -- and didn't. Spare the rest of us who know history more double-talk from the Middle East.

Jews were always in the Middle East and 800,000 were expelled from Arab nations from 1947-1960. When those Arab countries talk about allowing a 'right of return' and monetary redress, give me call.

And BTW.....GA 181 calls for returning refugees willing to LIVE IN PEACE with Israel. That wasn't the case 63 years ago and it isn't the case apparently today. You don't get to 'return' to plot Israel's destruction. SC 242 gives Israel the right to part of the West Bank for security purposes.

yes, Zionists, repeat it till you are blue of face. Zionists best buddies - another aparteid regime was sure saying the same. Where are they now, I wonder? By the way, they had a full support of USA and nukes. A world of good it brought them.

Yes, Zionists, lie till you themselves could not tell lie from truth. We are NOT you, we do know the truth about Zionist colonization of Palestine land, aka "Israel". Crusaders were in Palestine longer than Zionists. Still, they are just a footnote in the ME history. Zionism will be in their company as well.

And, last but not least. I am NOT sure that this rubbish hasbara is written by a Christian, but just to let others know- Zionists are oppressing Palestinian (and other Christians) no less than other Palestinians. Christians for Israel sounds a bit like Jews for Hitler, but, of course, Zionists WERE for Hitler, and Hitler did a lot to help them to colonize Palestine.

As'ad AbuKhalil gives strident, pat "answers" to important questions. His approach eschews any notion of compromise. Ultimately, his attitude ensures that a Palestinian state is just that much further away from realization.

Year, the best way to "Palestinian state' (what does it mean, exactly, by the way - a bantustan?) is to kiss ass of Zionists.

Compromise with the colonizers of Palestinian land is the sure way to Palestine "free" of Palestinians, because Zionists colonizers want (and always wanted) ALL of Palestine + a big chunk of the ME for themselves and WITHOUT "Arabs". The call it "Jewish state" openly.

a Palestinian state for a fraction of the arab world that was never independent and never had any national wishes in the axact land of a 3000 years nation with long arritage and great human story and world contribution is not something to be proud of.

the jews got into that land and tool it from the arabs? no one really salled the arabs in, but they took it anyway, so hypocratizm is to come blaming the jews for that.

"no one really salled the arabs in, but they took it anyway"

Let's pretend that's accurate (It's not). People have unconditional rights regardless of their genetic stock, so even if your ancestor invaded Palestine, no one is entitled to take your house on the spurious claim their unknown ancestor was in the land first.

hasbara seems to be active here, a good sign of the good article :)

Now, there are NOT some stupid ignorant USA media - there is a place for people who are NOT going to lap the b...s... by Zionist colonizers of Palestinian land under some stupid pretexts, found in some old book which has NOTHING to do with history.

Finkelstein demonstrates anew that he is a U.S. government stooge, in case you dense innocents didn't already know that.

Assad has shown exactly how we Arabs deal with unrequited advice about running our beloved states.

The Palestinian Peoples Republic will be run exactly along the same lines.

If the comment was sarcastic, then why was it prefaced with an attack on Finkelstein? It stands to reason that your comment actuallly was earnest. But do you really think that anybody (American / European / even any Arab) would agree with your sentiment to support an Assad-like leadership in Palestine?

You've only:
- reinforced global rejection of Palestinian statehood;
- strengthened a corrupt regime in Syria; and
- exposed the dearth of critical thought already prevalent among your cohorts.

Salam

i didnt read any of the comments but i just want to say im really upset by the tone as'ad uses here. you didnt have to sound so hostile towards norman. he is not the enemy.

Beyond being upset, it's worth pondering the mindset behind the remark. It sounds like Khartoum 1968 all over. There, after being trounced in the Six-Day War, Arab leaders convened and escalated the Rhetoric of No. So it is here, except by a representative of the Nation of No.

Which Palestinians don't want BDS? I don't believe Palestinians living in any part of Palestine or refugee camps in Lebanon would disagree with BDS. Maybe some rich ones who find it difficult to operate in their new countries...because being openly Palestinian and openly anti-Zionist amongst non Arabs is difficult.

Abu Khalil is one of our best representatives (be he Lebanese). He criticises Arab wrongs as well as Israeli wrongs.

While I don't agree with Finkelsteins 2 state solution which the Israelis have made impossible, he makes a huge contribution to exposing injustices done to Palestinians at much personal cost.

"I wanted the Palestinian cause to be part of OWS but not fools who promote "NONVIOLENCE" with photos and t-shirts of hijacker holding AK47 "resistance is not terrorism". Not in NYC, no. You have a problem with what I wrote, send these Palestinians in NYC a message, I have a problem with people claiming to promote nonviolence while they promote terrorism."

Except that you do not own the OWS movement, let alone NYC. And good luck on trying...

I have to agree with Abuminah--anyone who thinks that the US Congress could end Israel's occupation let alone bring about justice for Palestinians is delusional.

No, OWS is for hardworking people who contributed everything for this country, who lost their work, homes, health care, communities. We own OWS, not one foreign policy cause. NYC is owned by the hardworking people from many countries who created it, contribute to it, keep it functioning. Not groups focused on one foreign policy issue. Over 100 languages spoken in NYC, refugees from worse than Palestine. OWS is committed to nonviolence in words, images, conduct. Groups not honoring nonviolence undermine hard work of everyone else. Exactly what is happening in BDS which I have supported, if it's a nonviolence movement than confront those in it who are not committed to nonviolence. If BDS is nonviolence conduct only by supporters of Palestinians and not Palestinians themselves it fails.

Norman Finklestein is an embarrassment to academics everywhere. I just cannot support a man that defends the killing of children in Gaza!

Reply on your points:
1- The US public is crucial to resolving the issue given that it's the US that vetoes all UN resolutions that condemn Israel's actions against the Palestinians.

4- That's idiotic. The BDS movement is not against the existence of the state of Israel. If you really want Palestinians to be treated as humans you have to act accordingly and not waste time on deluded fantasies. I support the BDS movement for the same reasons I would have supported boycotts of South African apartheid. But I'm out if you decide to engage in low attacks against the existence of the state of Israel. The higher minds of Palestinian thought, which include Edward Said and Mahmoud Darwich, all collaborated with Israelis towards this common goal. We have to act with all those who are aware of the facts. It would be ridiculous to suggest that all people of european descent leave the USA and the same applies for Israelis. Many of them are third generations and have nothing to do with the crimes of their forefathers. We have to be realistic or else we are wasting our time.

7- Same answer as one. It seems like you are not really aware of how important US' role is on the subject. Nobody says that that's a good thing, it's just a fact and denying facts wouldn't get us anywhere.

Besides that, I would agree with the rest of what you said. But I'm afraid you remind me of the Tibetans who want independence from China. Even the Dalai Lama is against that and is asking for autonomy.

Ha, one more Zionist Arab here. All the nice words ONLY to defend Zionist colonial entity on Palestinian land! No, Israel would NOT stay here. No more than Rhodesia stays. No more than 3d and 13th generation French in Algeria stay. No more than 33d generation Brits in India stay.

And guess what? Zionists will NOT stay in Palestine because they would NOT agree to stop being a master race, to be equal to Palestinians. They are against right of return for Palestinians exactly because they want to live in aparteid "Jewish state". Anyway, the majority of Zionists hold foreign passports and have relatives abroad.

I wonder, does the Zionist Arab here is against right of return for Palestinians as well as NF?

I admit that it is hard to me to fathom why a Lebanese would want to have a colonial state on his border - after all, Zionists are NOT only after Palestinian land and water, they are after Lebanese ones as well. But after all, there were and are even Lebanese who helped Zionists to ruin their country, nothing new there, such quislings could be find, sure.

By the way, Tibetans have the SAME rights as other citizens of China. They are NOT in the same condition as Palestinians.

"But that does not give him a license to mock a struggle that is supported by the overwhelming majority of the Palestinian people."

I am a Palestinian and I completely agree with Dr. Finkelstein when it comes to BDS. I think they are a bunch of self promoting hypocrites and they have the support of 5% of the Palestinians at best. abu khalil dont speak in the name of the "overwhelming majority of the palestinian people" you dont have the right to do so.
Not to mention that many of BDS leaders are normalizers, like abunimah who met with the zionist media, and omar barghouti who asks for academic boycott and attends tel aviv university. BDS is a cult, I have been saying that for about 2 years now, I am just happy that there is a sound of reason that came to the same conclusion.

You are not a Palestinian. No everyday Palestinian would be opposed to a boycott of companies that profiteer from the colonization of Palestine.

You characterize Ali Abunimah as a collaborator with Zionism because he was on TV. LOL

Ali Abunimah is not a Zionist and is not part of the mainstream Zionist self-talk in the MSM.

I think what is happening now in the fallout of Finkelstein's recent comments is that a bunch of Zionist Internet trolls are capitalizing on the divergent opinions in the Palestinian solidarity movement.

So no, you are not Palestinian. Ali Abunimah is a Palestinian.

Sure, SOME Palestinians are lackeys of Zionism. Dahlah, for ex. And, of course, they like to blame non-lackeys for their treachery to shield themselves.

of course, it is not impossible that some Zionist troll is impersonating a Palestinian.

In brief, Prof Finkelstein is a Zionist: he believes that the Jews have a right for a home in Palestine. Having said that, he is a "nice" Zionist: he thinks that the Jewish state can be less repressive towards the Arabs in the occupied territoroes.
He attracts anti Israeli people because he criticizes the Israeli government(s) but, now, that the anti Israeli struggle has moved on to question the legitimacy of the Jewish state, Prof Finkelstine is found wanting.

"But that does not give him a license to mock a struggle that is supported by the overwhelming majority of the Palestinian people."

Neither does the suffering of Palestinians give them license to harm others in the international community. If "the overwhelming majority of the Palestinian people" continue to condone international terrorism (PFLP, PFLP-GA, Black September), I find it difficult to BDS for a people who could harm me. It is "the overwhelming majority of the Palestinian people" who mock BDS if they fail to condemn the Int'l terrorism that harmed their own cause. Palestinians must convince the international community that they no longer honor terrorists such as Leila Khaled because there is no honor in going to other countries, hijacking planes, keeping innocent defenseless people including children in deadly conditions.

Never mind Finkelstein's words, we need to know Palestinians are not going to continue to terrorize us because they can't figure out constructive ways to get our attention, affection, alliance. Until I know "the overwhelming majority of the Palestinian people" condemn international terrorism I can't commit to BDS.

I continue to oppose US funding Israel, but if I BDS it will be both Israel and Palestinians because while Israel causes more harm, Palestinians are not completely innocent.

wow, how very racist. Its interesting that all the 'terrorists' you point to like leila khaled are from the 70's. Here is something to ponder though as you're picking and choosing the worthy oppressed from the unworthy. Nelson Mandela NEVER renounced the armed struggle against white minority rule he was in effect a terrorist. It is a fundamental right of occupied peoples to resist that occupation by any means necessary, that's not just a left position its actually the official position of the UN. and for whitey (For I am 99% sure that you are) to go around declaring the heroic resistance of the Palestinian is an obstacle to them is profoundly racist and patronizing.
All power to the resistance organizations

He's white, don't mistake it. And for sure he's racist. Most likely a zionist masquerading as a Palestine activist, but he didn't disguise himself too well though. I suggest we treat him the same as a zionist when addressing him.

Foolish fools can't help but try to fool everyone. Norman Finkelstein calls BDS cult while he is in cultish "Existence is Resistance" who claim to promote nonviolence while they sell t-shirts in NYC in 2012 of Leila Khaled with AK47 stating "resistance is not terrorism", promoting terrorism, not resistance, certainly not promoting nonviolence (correct?).

Palestinians went to many countries to commit "terrorism" not "resistance" Jordan, Italy, Uganda and more. They were forced out of Jordan in September 1970 because of international terrorism, not resistance (you call Jordan's conduct "racism"?), . While Nelson Mandela spent decades in prison, Leila Khaled and other terrorists were freed in exchange for hostages kept by other terrorists. ANC never sought to harm people, they gave advanced warnings before bombing things, people were harmed, never intentionally. I'm not condoning it, just giving facts you cowardly chose to omit.

Fortunately I'm from Sicily, not considered "white". Sicily was occupied for centuries by nearly everyone in the region including Arabs for over 200 years. Funny, fools calling a fellow mediterranean "whitey", "racist". FYI, sicily sits on the African continental plate. Fool.

Foolish fools who fool the fools of the fool's fool.... geez you really are dedicated to spamming al-akhbar's comment board with nonsensical ramblings. I don't know what gave you this fixation with Leila Khaled (it's bordering obsession, really. I'm starting to think she means more to you than you let on...), but bottom line is you're a zionist. And I know, I know, you're going to cry and get defensive and insulting because I called you that. But come on, who are you kidding?

"Palestinians went to many countries to commit "terrorism" not "resistance" Jordan, Italy, Uganda and more"

That type of rhetoric is standard zionist discourse. And then you go on to make excuses for the Jordanian government? A government known for its foul treatment of refugees, and the most extensive collaboration with israel out of all the arab states? You are joking, really zionist. You're using your fantasies of Leila Khaled as a crutch to demonize Palestinian people in general, and Palestinian resistance in particular.

Fortunately, those who are educated on your disinformation understand that you're still "white". White is not skin color or geographical location. Race is a social construct, and you fit the bill. In fact, whitey, you're worse than the average supremacist because you try deluding people into thinking you're not white whilst spreading your racism towards non-white people. As if it gives you a free pass to do so.

But your language is nothing new. Zionism is an extension of European-based racialist ideologies, which you have proven to be a proud inheritor of. By all means though, sing some more songs about Leila Khaled and Sicily for me?

You come here acting like each and every Palestinian activist has to answer for plane hijackings that happened over 40 years ago (Not 30 as I slipped in another comment) and you take offense at being called racist. It is absolutely possible for someone who is not white, even a member of an oppressed group, to take up racist canards against their own group. Before Zionism was racist against Arabs, it mimicked anti-semitism. If you don't want to be called racist, don't sound like one. That simple.

"ANC never sought to harm people, they gave advanced warnings before bombing things, people were harmed, never intentionally."

So this is a distinction worth acknowledging, but the fact Leila Khaled did not kill or injure anyone over the course of her plane hijackings is totally irrelevant. Instead of playing victim, ask yourself what are we supposed to think? You come here on a thread about BDS brandishing 30-year-old events as if every Palestinian has to answer for them. People are going to think that racist, tough.

"we need to know Palestinians are not going to continue to terrorize us because they can't figure out constructive ways to get our attention, affection, alliance". Why aren't you the ones trying to get their attention, affection, alliance? Israel is the occupying force and Palestinians are those living under occupations, not the other way around. Sure "palestinians are not completely innocent", so what? Why would they be? All acts of palestinian terrorisms are condemned by numerous palestinians all the time and how can you not at least understand, if not justify, those who do not condemn them. They've been living in desperate conditions for over 60 years, having their homes destroyed and their lands stolent. Denying that fact when trying to understand the few Palestinian acts of violence is delusional and dishonest.

Calling people names is fasted way to prove you have no case. I don't need to earn Palestinian attention, affection, alliance. I'm not guilty of harming Palestinians. The world is full of conflict. Palestinians started international terrorism over 40 years ago to get "attention" while world was bleeding from VIetnam, South Africa apartheid, dictators, colonialism etc. No oppressed people gained freedom by terrorizing other people. Palestinians in NY contend most Palestinians still love Leila Khaled for hijacking planes full of innocents including children. Read for yourself how Palestinians promote terrorism in NYC https://www.facebook.com/OccupyWallSt/posts/211639572238632?notif_t=shar...

Nice try. Sure, Palestinians are NOT allowed to fight back when being under colonial rule? Even the lousy "international law" give them the right to armed struggle against occupation.

Then, to speak about who "condones international terrorism"- a bit rich given Zionists' terrorism (in Iran, for ex, but not only) which is FULLY supported by USA rulers. No wonder - USA is the BIGGEST sponsor of international terrorism, after all, Bin Laden was once on CIA payroll. So, if anon feels threatened by anti-Zionist resistance, anon has only USA rulers to thank for.

In short, a lame try to put the wool over our eyes, esp. dishonest because the article is about BDS, which is NON-violent way of struggle against Zionist colonialism and aparteid. And sure, why would the mighty anon support BDS against Zionists who DO harm millions of people, because, after all, thous people are non-white and their life is cheap, no matter their way of struggle. But anon could relax - Zionism will end even without anon's vital role. Aparteid ended while some righteous anons were preaching about SA's Blacks being NOT worth of support because of their "terrorism".

And it is nice to hear that anon "continues to oppose US funding Israel" - I suppose he single-handed stopped billions of USA help for Zionists crimes?

By the way, next time somebody trys to mug anon, I suppose he should be punished along with the mugger, because anon is "not completely innocent", after all, NOBODY is completely innocent.

All in all, what a disgusting post of self-righteous hypocrite who used even BDS call to try to accuse victims of Zionism of being "not completely innocent".
Some people have no shame!

Fight back who? Innocent defenseless harmless people on planes? I'm only discussing INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM, not resistance on own land. No, when you go to other people's countries to terrorize don't expect help. When Palestinians continue in 2012 to celebrate international terrorists who wanted to harm children, don't expect everyone to care. No other oppressed people went to other countries to terrorize, not Mandela, not ANC. I call war on Iraq international terrorism, I call dropping nuclear bombs on Japan international terrorism, I call war on Vietnam international terrorism. Only you call international terrorism on harmless defenseless innocents "resistance". Palestinians in NYC claiming to promote nonviolence defend and promote international terrorism, I call war on Gaza and West Bank occupation international terrorism. It's Palestinians responsibility to stop other Palestinians promoting idea that hijacking planes is "resistance" not "terrorism" because it harms Palestinians most. I tried to warn Palestinians in NYC who claim to promote nonviolence o stop using 40+ year old image of hijacker with AK47 because it is not promoting terrorism, they stats most Palestinians still cherish their old international terrorists, nice https://www.facebook.com/OccupyWallSt/posts/211639572238632?notif_t=shar...

INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM? The staple of USA and Zionism? Should I list ALL thousands and more terrorist acts by them, including very new! And yes, Zionist terrorists are worshiped by Zionists, some of them are even were heads of state.

Palestinians were NOT just blowing civilian planes in the air like the notorious terrorist Luis Posada who is now feted in USA as a hero. He blew up a plane full of schoolchildren athlets, and USA are harboring him, because the children were Cubans. Those terrorists are on CIA payroll and live freely in USA and brag about their crimes on media, and here some anon has a gall to blame Palestinians for terrorism!

And NO, I am NOT expecting of a Zionist troll the support for Palestinian case, no matter how non-violent way they choose. Zionists ALWAYS blame Palestinians, because they are colonizers, and colonizers ALWAYS blame their victims.

"NOT expecting of a Zionist troll the support for Palestinian case"

No, you can't cope with facts. Norman Finkelstein calls BDS "cult", not me. He is in cultish group EIR claiming to promote "nonviolence" while they sell t-shirts with 40+ year old image of hijacker Leila Khaled holding AK47 stating "resistance is not terrorism" in NYC in 2012. Fact, for 99% of world, going to other countries hijacking planes, keeping people including children in deadly conditions is called terrorism. I'm a "zionist troll" who is often called anti-semitc by zionists for supporting Palestinians? No, fool. I'm not the one deceptively claiming I promote "nonviolence" while I openly condone, defend, promote terrorism your foolish friends in NYC. Only in your contemptuous mind in using the image of a hijacker holding an AK47, wearing a ring she made from grenade pin and bullet, stating "resistance is not terrorism" promoting "nonviolence".

Interesting how old supporters of Palestinians who dare to confront dishonesty are suddenly zionists. What are you going to do "resist" me criticism by hijacking plane I'm on? You never consider how it harms Palestinians most. Fool.

ProPals need to stop calling supporters "racist" "zionist", it's getting old much as zionists calling critics of their terrorism anti-semitic.

You can't let go of your failed international terrorism because it helped Palestinians? No, it only made things worse for Palestinians. Fool.

This Sicilian anon is sure a troubled soul :( Now we all know that the tees with the image of Leila Khaled are making him (?) see red. I really do not know what to say - maybe I wasted my time trying to reason with such person, but, anyway, my (and others) argument against this t-shirttphobic person are valid.

Victims of colonialism do not need to be 'innocent' before their struggle for land and freedom can be supported. And who is harming whom? As for these 'others' in the 'international community' - are they the same others that have funded and armed the terrorist state of Israel? No one wants your 'attention' - just get out of our land and lives.

No, I'm discussing international terrorism, not resistance on own land. The same others who arm oppressive Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, once armed Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein. Of course, US, Russia, China many countries arm oppression of people in other different countries, not only Israel. I'm discussing cultish group Norman Finkelstein is in, they claim to promote "nonviolence" while using photos and selling t-shirts of hijacker holding AK47 stating "resistance is not terrorism" in NYC. They make Palestinians look bad. Read for yourself, they want to smack and spit on people who oppose use of those images. I don't blame Palestinians for 9/11, but it's harmful for Palestinians claiming to promote nonviolence to sell t-shirts of hijacker w AK47 in NYC. Norman Finkelstein calls BDS cultish, he needs to get out of or confront and correct his own cult https://www.facebook.com/OccupyWallSt/posts/211639572238632?notif_t=shar...

You are more afraid of Palestinians "harming" you than you are concerned about israeli's threat? You really expect to convince someone you're anti-israel with obvious orientalist dogma like that? Please, save your "sympathy" zionist

You proved my point, zionists call me anti-semitic, proPals cal me racist zionist because neither is honest on their faults and failures. Funny, I a sicilian espousing "orientalist dogma" on other mediterraneans under occupation. SIcilians were occupied and oppressed for centuries by Greeks, Romans, Arabs, French. My father's family herded sheep, my mother's family harvested olives, much as many Palestinians continue to.

Fact: Rabin was murdered for Oslo Accords by a jewish Israeli (incited by Netanyahu), Sharon got death threats for removing settlers from Gaza, he's in a coma for it. Hamas and Fatah murdered each other. Palestinians in Europe, US, many other countries are safe full citizens, not in neighboring countries. Lebanon, Palestinians suffer and die in horrific camps because the Lebanese have denied them their humanity, Palestinian groups were killing each other in Lebanon recently (PFLP-GA). Jordan, Black September conflict caused death or expulsion of thousands of Palestinians.. Syria, PFLP is helping the oppressive regime commit violence on Syrians. Palestinian international terrorism has harmed Palestinians and neighboring countries most.

Israel is no friend of the US. Israel illegally sells US military equipment and info to China. The US Israel relationship is detrimental to US, offensive to other US allies. US has cut funding for children, elderly, disabled while increased funding for Israel. I oppose zionism knowing differentiating humans is inhuman, creates oppression, conflict.

I'm not wasting more of my "sympathy" fool, I contributed more energy and money for Palestinians than other people suffering as much if not much more (DR Congo, Haiti, Guatemala, Tibet, Sudan). I'm no zionist, you are foolish.

Norman Finkelstein is in cult "Existence is Resistance" who claim to promote nonviolence while they sell t-shirts with 40+ old image of hijacker Leila Khaled holding an AK47 stating "resistance is not terrorism". EIR is so intelligent they used other photo of Khaled with an AK47 (cropped so the AK47 was not seen) for an OWS event in NYC, near ground zero. Imagine the most famous member of PFLP who pioneered international hijackings, Sept 6 1970 hijacked four planes destined for US, kept hostages in deadly conditions in Jordan desert (except for plane Khaled hijacked), on Sept 11 started to release some hostage. Khaled pulled pins out of grenades nearly murdering everyone, she was stopped by crew, plane flown to safety. Norman Finkelstein is in a cult promoting international terrorism (not resistance, not nonviolence as they falsely claim) in NYC in 2012 https://www.facebook.com/OccupyWallSt/posts/211639572238632?notif_t=shar...

Your whining about sicily is completely irrelevant to this topic, so I'm not even going to dignify that with a response.

And last time I checked, white man, you're still from europe. Your rhetoric on Arabs, particularly Palestinians, is incredibly condescending and it's laced with orientalism (as is the case with alot of europeans who bear a racist complex). And I'm not just throwing out those terms because of your "disagreements" with me (grow up, you're using your "opinions" as a shield from criticism). I'm doing it because you insist on using that one incident of Leila Khaled to discredit Palestinians, or dictate how they should act. That is classic orientalism. If you don't understand this, I suggest you get educated on that matter.

And as if your previous ramblings didn't suffice, now you bring up Palestinian factions and the refugee situation? And what does any of that have to do with Palestinians winning their land & rights back? It seems like you just wasted whole paragraphs bringing up random bits of history in order to prove fallaciously that Palestinians are "bad" or "violent" people or something. Ya, and you're not a zionist... right...

In fact, your immature and aggressive response to me after I called you "zionist" isn't helping your case. I could care less about what you supposedly "did" for Palestine. No humanitarian "brags" about his help. You don't deserve an award or anything, especially when you contradict your supposed "help" with blatant generalizations and racist statements about the Palestinian people.

As for your leila khaled rant, I saw the facebook post you linked. And the comment section is filled with people calling you out on your racist dogma. So as you can see, I'm not the only one.

I await your response which is likely to be filled with more random ranting, zionist rhetoric, condescension, whinings about sicily, and other incoherent mess

"If "the overwhelming majority of the Palestinian people" continue to condone international terrorism (PFLP, PFLP-GA, Black September), I find it difficult to BDS for a people who could harm me."

Are you on Alzheimer's or something? These groups are either defunct or irrelevant. There hasn't been a plane hijacking by a Palestinian group since the 70's.

"I continue to oppose US funding Israel, but if I BDS it will be both Israel and Palestinians because while Israel causes more harm, Palestinians are not completely innocent."

This is not even remotely coherent. Palestinian products are not sold in mainstream outlets (beauty products, food, etc.). There is nothing on the Palestinian side for you to BDS. Not to mention BDS stands for boycott, divestment, sanctions... what sanctions do you propose on the people of Gaza who already can't import concrete, paper and shoes?

Balance coming from your mouth doesn't make the situation balanced. It only results in hypocrisy.

Nice one, "Alzheimers", my mother has it, she survived war and occupation in SIcily, her brother and my father's brother did not, she can't forget the deaths and suffering. You want to see hypocrisy? Read how Palestinians in NYC claiming to promote nonviolence defend and promote international terrorism. I have boycotted South Africa, China, chocolate, and Israel. But don't expect me to continue boycotting for people who continue to cherish international hijackers. You don't like it, tough. I don't like being called a racist when I'm no different that Palestinians (Sicily was occupied by Arabs for over 200 years). The group Norman Finkelstein is in is cultish, read for yourself, one wants to smack me, other wants to spit on me for trying to protect OWS from fools. I wanted the Palestinian cause to be part of OWS but not fools who promote "NONVIOLENCE" with photos and t-shirts of hijacker holding AK47 "resistance is not terrorism". Not in NYC, no. You have a problem with what I wrote, send these Palestinians in NYC a message, I have a problem with people claiming to promote nonviolence while they promote terrorism https://www.facebook.com/OccupyWallSt/posts/211639572238632?notif_t=shar...

First, sorry about the Alzheimer's remark. The internet can bring out the nastiness in people (Or it can make nasty people even nastier). Second, you blow a lot of smoke based on one facebook event. The thing is, I don't care if someone honors Leila Khaled. Despite the charge, "promote nonviolence while they promote terrorism," you haven't put any evidence of such, because no one is promoting non-violence and no one is promoting terrorism, certainly not on that facebook page. And you haven't even asked why someone might wear a Leila Khaled shirt. Maybe they aren't necessarily celebrating terrorism as you imagine? Her two plane hijackings didn't have any fatalities, unlike IDF house demolitions and checkpoints which often do, so placing her in the same league is asinine.

If this is such an issue for you, ask them what Leila Khaled means. Acting like Palestinians need to be condemned on equal footing with Israelis, because you saw a t-shirt at some demo no less, is hypocritical. And again, glancing at the facebook event, it doesn't seem like anyone tried to promote non-violence (whatever the hell that is) or terrorism, so the charge is flatout nonsensical.

"flatout nonsensical" is stating "determined to promote nonviolence", as EIR does on their website while on same website selling t-shirts which most people would see as promoting "terrorism". I'm not going by one dishonest group, although did you see within the first five comments, members wrote they wanted to smack me and spit on my face? It was hard to read the rest but I did, shocked because I had formed friendships with other members.

Fool Mussolini is still a hero for some. Italy had "anni di piombo" (years of lead) when Leila Khaled came to my country to terrorize innocents. We had our own domestic terrorism, organized crime. EIR has been harassing me for months because I "dare" to I confront their dishonesty after months of supporting them, I'm supposed to stand aside in silence. No "nonviolence group" has t-shirts of hijackers holding AK47, come on. THERE ARE NO AK47s IN NONVIOLENCE, NEVER. See, not hard to spell it out, only for fools it's too hard to comprehend.

FYI, it's not for one event, hey sold those t-shirts at Students for Justice in Palestine 2011 national conference in Columbia University.

How is selling in NYC, in 2012, t-shirts with iconic image of PFLP hijacker that participated in the Sept. 6 1970 hijackings of 4 planes destined for the US, who started to release some hostages on Sept 11, not promoting terrorism? You must contend it is promoting violence, not nonviolence?

How is one "Acting like Palestinians need to be condemned on equal footing with Israelis", by attending pro-palestinian protests, by organizing only NYC vigil for Vittorio Arrigoni, by attending events supporting Palestinians, buy donating money, buying three books and two t-shirts stating "We Shall Return, Nakba 1948", incase one goes to a protest with a friend who has no pro-palestinian t-shirt". By contacting elected officials to cut US aid for Israel. By commenting on Huffiington Post where one is called anti-semetic for criticizing israel. By getting most followers for my pro-palestinian comments. Never enough is it? One has to not confront Palestinians for their self-destructive conduct. If I confront zionists for their self-destructive conduct

You know nothing of me and you come to mistaken conclusions. I don't need to prove something to you. You know this is no forum for in-depth discussion. I offered my concerns and I'm called racist zionist alzheimers etc. nice (not).

""flatout nonsensical" is stating "determined to promote nonviolence", as EIR does on their website while on same website selling t-shirts which most people would see as promoting "terrorism"."

See, that wasn't so hard, was it? Now I can clearly see EIR mentions non-violence on their site while selling that Leila Khaled t-shirt. Amazing. I still don't care, but now I know what you're talking about. Frankly, you have no one to blame but yourself for the responses you're getting. You should have an idea of how people are going to react to phrases like "CELEBRATING TERRORIST HIJACKER" if that's you on that facebook page and you should have an idea of how people will react to phrases like "if I BDS it will be both Israel and Palestinians" You have to be pretty oblivious to think that won't set off a red flag with any Palestine-solidarity person.

A lot of times it's not what you say, it's the way you say it. Maybe there's some validity in your concerns about selling Leila Khaled shirts, but you've given no one cause to care. You don't even want to try to understand why Leila Khaled and her AK-47 might be an icon of resistance even to a Palestinian who favors non-violence, so why should anyone listen to you?

There are ways to bring up the subject that might not alienate the people you're talking to. I suggested one of them above. Still, I don't get why it matters. No one wearing that shirt is going to hijack any planes. Palestinians don't have a PR-problem because anyone not a hypocrite can see the violence of Leila Khaled holding a rifle pales in comparison to her forced removal from Haifa. But if you really, really need to harp on this, there are better ways to go about it than sounding like a typical Israel-drone, then expecting anybody to care when you name off what you've done for the cause.

In case you forgot, Norman Finkelstein it the subject, not me. He calls BDS a "cult", he is in a "fraud nonviolence cult".

"You have to be pretty oblivious to think that won't set off a red flag with any Palestine-solidarity person." Incredible. Honestly? No, using cropped photo of an un-repentant hijacker holding an AK47 (whose terrorist group hijacked four planes headed for US, PFLP is not defunct) for an OWS event near ground zero sets off a red flag with concerned person who cares enough to confront fools harming own cause and OWS cause. EIR fools must be more than oblivious, no one can be that unintelligent. You expect me to gently careful not to offend communicate my concerns to fools who don't give a fu_k about the US, NYC, OWS, 9/11 families, keep holding your breath. Fine, EIR has the right to continue harming their own cause, just don't expect everyone to continue going along for the disastrous ride. Norman Finkelstein is heavy in EIR, he can be criticized for his own cult.

My original comment was on Finkelstein, he calls BDS (nonviolence) a cult, while he is in a cult selling t-shirts promoting violence. Come on, in gun violence culture US, you expect to see t-shirts of someone holding an AK47 from the NRA, not group "determined to promote nonviolence". Finkelstein needs to get out or correct his own cult. Get a clue, fools. I"m out for here.

Consider my 9/11PTSD flareups, triggered by fools in my community condoning, defending, promoting hijackings for their one foreign policy cause. I'm honest, unlike you blaming the internet for you nasty fixation on my comment.

Norman Finkelstein called BDS cult, not me. He is in is own cult, not me. You don't like my comments, tough, I don't like people who can't counter facts and foolishly throw "racist" "zionist" cards as fast as zionists throw the antisemitism card. It got old for zionists, it's getting old for Palestinians.

"Amazing. I still don't care, but now I know what you're talking about. Frankly, you have no one to blame but yourself for the responses you're getting. You should have an idea of how people are going to react to phrases like "CELEBRATING TERRORIST HIJACKER"

Guess what? I never cared what you thought before and after your blame the internet for my nasty "alzheimers" foolishness. You know what we say in NYC to foolishness? "Get the f outta here" (gtfoh) fools condoning, defending, promoting hijackings in NYC should expect confrontation. Fools failed to comprehend where they were (not in Palestine any more). You and everyone defending Khaled lies, she pulled pins out of grenades on plane, one stewart was shot, crew overtook Khaled, off with your falsehoods "she was ordered not to harm, she did no release grenades from her hand because she cared (only to save her own skin), crocodile tears".

No, you need to consider how thousands of 9/11 families feel with fools in our midsts more focused on one foreign cause (countless for New Yorkers from each continent) undermining OWS nonviolence commitment. I made my comment you don't like it, fu_k off nasty Mr Alzheimers. You continue to know nothing and demand I convince you and fools here I'm not a racist undercover zionist. Can fools get more foolish? I first made an effort to communicate directly to EIR they were harming Palestinians and OWS with glorifying Leila Khaled in NYC. They got unhinged with how Palestinians continue to love, salute, cherish her etc. Forgetting they’re not in Palestine, they’re in NYC, where over 3000 people (including those who died from toxic fumes) were murdered, most believe by hijackers who were motivated in part if not mostly by Palestinian cause. If you believe CIA, Mossad conspiracy theories, you should still know not to glorify hijackers in NYC, only common sense. Gtfoh palestinians have no PR firm.

I contact OWS, they wanted me to send then info because in their words "we are committed to nonviolence, we want families with children, everyone to feel safe here, we're near ground zero, we don't want to offend 9/11 victims families and survivors". Can you comprehend how thousands of people grieving, suffering from 9/11PTSD feel with fools glorifying a hijacker weeks following 9/11 anniversary? No, you can't. You can comprehend how harmful it would be for an Israeli group claiming to promote nonviolence to glorify JDL's Meir Kahane in Jerusalem. Yet you can't comprehend New Yorkers harmed on 9/11 objecting to glorification of hijackers, get a conscience. You can’t consider how difficult it is for me after much spent energy and money helping Palestinians (which I could have given to countless other causes) to confront fools who can't comprehend how their own conduct harms their own cause? They hold on to destructive Khaled who only made things worse for Palestinians instead of being their own heroes, creating constructive future. I don’t need to convince you or others here I’m not a racist undercover zionist, I oppose zionism because it’s a form of racism, I oppose occupations, I oppose wars, I oppose fraud nonviolence fools. Norman Finkelstein is in a fraud nonviolence cult. Consider my and countless others’ 9/11PTSD flare ups when we see fools glorifying hijacker in NYC.

Post new comment

The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <em> <strong> <cite> <code> <ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd><img><h1><h2><h3><h4><h5><h6><blockquote><span><aside>
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.

More information about formatting options

^ Back to Top