A Response to Cpl, Jeffrey Goldberg on Greenberg, Israel and Torture

Update: The Exiled has more on Goldberg's sleaze campaign, and notes that Greenberg has offered two somewhat contradictory stories to two different bloggers.

After Al Akhbar English published my report, "The Israelification of American domestic security," the usual group of anonymous ultra-Zionist trolls began attacking me on Twitter. They didn't challenge any of the facts I brought forth in my piece -- they couldn't because they were all true -- but instead questioned whether Karen Greenberg, who I quoted, would have said such things to me about Israeli influence on American torture policy.

The Twitter trolls apparently enlisted former Israeli prison guard and current online occupation enforcer Jeffrey Goldberg as their captain. Goldberg went to Greenberg directly and asked her if I quoted her accurately (Goldberg called the full-time pro-Israel trolls "Goldblog readers"). After being prodded, Greenberg claimed to Goldberg, "I never made such a statement. I've never seen any proof of this."

Greenberg has been a friend of mine and has helped me in the past. In 2009, for instance, she hosted me for a discussion at her former Center for Law and Security at NYU of my book, "Republican Gomorrah."

I am not sure why Greenberg would deny the statement she made to me on the record unless she was intimidated by Goldberg and the pro-Israel forces he represents. But the salient fact is that I did quote her accurately, word for word, and I stand by my reporting.

Greenberg's statement to me did not come out of the blue: A book she co-authored with Joshua Dratel, "The Road to Abu Ghraib," contains a lengthy section on Israeli court rulings authorizing torture and torture techniques refined by the Shin Bet. In a subsequent article, Greenberg and Dratel proposed questions for Donald Rumsfeld about torture. Here is one: "Did your discussions of torture involve consulting experts in Israel..?"

I imagine that Greenberg wishes she had made a more qualified statement to me on Israel and torture, or that she did not make such a remark at all. But she said what she said and I quoted her accurately.

It is revealing that Goldberg chose to focus on an issue that was at best peripheral to my story, which dealt entirely with the subject of Israeli training of American local and federal law enforcement. It appears that he was unable to challenge my factual reporting, or to deal with the uncomfortable substance of it, so he sought to change the subject.

Comments

Greenberg's full quote on question to Rumsfeld: "Did your discussions of torture involve consulting experts in Israel, the United Kingdom, Egypt, and elsewhere? If so, what did those sources have to say in recommending torture? Or was the administration convinced of the efficacy of torture before it began drawing up its legal documents?" So, Israel, is mentioned along with other nations, but in no case does Greenberg claim that Israel has trained or advocated the U.S. using torture.
Greenberg's and Dratel's book contains a SHORT section (about two pages, in a tome of 1249 pages -- or .065% of the book) regarding the restrictions the Israeli Supreme Court placed on physical interrogation techniques. Click on Blumenthal's link, and read it for yourself. Do you really believe what Blumenthal writes?
Finally, Blumenthal takes a huge leap -- without substantiation -- from issues of violent terrorism and torture of terrorist suspects, to claiming Israel is somehow intimately involved in the machinations of municipal and campus police forces and their confrontations with the Occupy demonstrations here in the U.S. Specious? You be the judge.

yes, could one really believe one Jeffrey Ellis who claims by the way, that Israel torture is against "violent terrorism" and "of terrorist suspects" while it is known how Zionists torture minors to make them "confess" of throwing stones, not mentioning calling "terrorists" everyone who is against Zionist colonialist theft of their land.

In short, JE is a Zionist apologist of torture, and I could see why he(?) is not happy with Zionist torture-masters being exposed. I suppose it is a sign Max doing a good job :)

It should be noted that "The Exiled" is a heavily censored web site, where moderators refuse to publish any comments that refute or take a contrary point of view to what Blumenthal wrote, in his original article.
That being said, Blumenthal truly engages in Breitbart-style non-journalism, deceptively linking together partial quotes and vaguely cited attributions. Many are either completely out of context, or have no relationship to the issue of torture and/or police action against various Occupy venues.
Greenberg has twice clearly disavowed what Blumenthal claims she stated. The first time she out-and-out stated the quote was false. On a second occasion, she stated that she did not even come close to saying anything that resembled the ideas that Blumenthal attributed to her. Furthermore, no link Blumenthal provides to source material provides any information related to Blumenthal's allegations. All Blumenthal proves is something everyone already knows -- almost all of the world's law enforcement agencies have relationships with each other, and many of them share information and training. But nothing indicates the slightest connection between Israel and the U.S. government's torture policy under the Bush Administration.

almost all of the world's law enforcement agencies have relationships with each other, and many of them share information and training

They certainly do. The killing of Mustafa Tamimi on Friday and the shooting of an American Iraq war veteran last month are eerily similar. I don't need Greenberg or even Max Blumenthal (though I believe him) to tell me that there had been an Israelification of domestic security.

bad news. in order to support his initial lies, maxxie again misrepresented what greenberg writes in her book

http://maxblumenthalliar.wordpress.com/2011/12/09/did-max-blumenthal-bla...

this post contains nothing slanderous, just the facts

This is a reminder to posters that slanderous comments directed at authors will not pass moderation.

Tackle the subject in a respectful manner without personal attacks on the author, and your comment will be published.

We state clearly in our Comments Policy that comments should not contain slander.

Please adhere to those rules.

Max got pwned.

How can anybody still read Goldberg?
He has been discredited time and again.
It is incredible that honest people still have to defend themselves against someone like that.

If Greenberg has been a friend of yours doesn't that make it all the more significant that she denies the quote?

This story should be running on American network TV.

So you have her words on tape or digitally recorded, for journalistic verification?

BTW, Goldberg addressed the most inflammatory part I think.

Thank you for linking to that book. Reading the section that you linked to made clear that the Israeli court actually prohibited -- not authorized, as you wrote -- those torture techniques.

1) Yes, "prohibited" only after a long campaign, so the torture was "lawful" in Israel for long time.
2) Still, IOF is known for its disregarding court orders. A.Kam was jailed in Israel not long ago for leaking tons of documents about IOF violating court rulings. She was jailed, but violators were NOT.
3) Still, the "prohibition" was NOT 100% and holds "exceptions"

In short, Israel torture every day (including minors) and Israel courts routinely use such "evidence" against Palestinians.

And it would not be the first time when somebody got hold feet after Zionist threats and took his/her words back. Goldstein was just the last example of such shameful behavior. Of course, the cowardice of a person is still not an argument, because Israel crimes are still crimes and Israel torture is still torture

the zionist court doesn't give advanced legal authorization for torture. But they're willing to give authorization based on the necessity principle. How convenient for them. Every crime they do is out of necessity only (including land theft apparently). When was the last time you heard of zionist investigator tried for utilizing the techniques mentioned in this section of the book. these methods are a zionist trademark.

Nice try Max, but you were just totally humiliated for a fraudulent quote. So name-call away, but you are exposed for the fraud that you are. Nice deflection effort though, i.e. trying to distinguish between your fraudulent quote and the substance of your article upon which is based on the fraudulent quote. Goldblog drank your milkshake today Max, and it's fun to watch.

Why don't you produce the recording then? Or some kind of evidence so it isn't just your word against hers?

It's not usually a good idea to cover up lies with more lies, Max.

Post new comment

The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <em> <strong> <cite> <code> <ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd><img><h1><h2><h3><h4><h5><h6><blockquote><span><aside>
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.

More information about formatting options

^ Back to Top